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Post by Bud Parsley on Aug 29, 2006 21:42:06 GMT -8
Amusement Today has their golden ticket awards posted for 2006. Of course Cedar Point cleans up again as the best park for the 9th consecutive year. After having been there for the first time this season, I must agree. It was very cool to see that Holiday World had all 3 of their woodies in the top 10, and they won (by a long shot) for both Friendliest Staff and also Cleanest Park. That park is creeping up my "must visit" list... Check out all the results: www.amusementtoday.com/2006gtaParkAndRide.html
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Post by 65skylark on Aug 30, 2006 13:42:01 GMT -8
This poll has been out a week or so now so I have had time to calm down a bit. Simply put, I believe this poll is way more of a popularity contest than an even slightly accurate poll. I have been on a mere 75 coasters, and, have been to very few parks outside the west coast, so I do not pretend to know first hand what the world has to offer in the many areas this poll covers . I do, however, spend LOTS of time (yes I am a geek) reading trip reports, reading other polls, and chatting often with far more experienced theme park and roller coaster enthusiasts than myself. Just a few points.
Find me ONE person on this planet (I dare anyone) who has been on Balder that would not rank it at LEAST in there top three wood. Didn't even make top 10.
Find me ONE person who has been on Expedition G-Force who would not rank it in there top three steel. Magnum XL above G-Force? You've got to be freaking kidding me?
Six Flags Fiesta Texas has better shows than Disney? If SFFT has a more impressive show than Fantasmic or Illuminations someone please chime in and let me know so I can book my flight to Texas tomorrow.
I have no doubt Cedar Point is a great park, and I plan on getting there soon, but of all the people I know that have been to a large number of parks through-out the country, NONE of them include Cedar Point as a top 5 park. ALL of them include Holiday World as a top 5 park.
These are just a few basic points. Believe me I could go on for hours. I personally know 2 people who vote in this poll and they would tell you as sure as I would that this poll is full of voters with an agenda. They have there parks and coasters they will vote for NO MATTER WHAT. Also most of the voters are not very well travelled outside of the US so it is very biased toward foreign parks. (hence no Balder in the top 10 and Magnum above G-Force). As one of the people I know who votes in this poll said the other day - "Thank God for Mitch's poll" - referring to Mitch Hawker's wood and steel coaster polls that use head to head comparisons so you get an accurate idea of how someone who has been on both Magnum and G-Force would rate them compared to each other. BTW, Mitch's 2005 wood coaster results had Balder #1 and Tremors #4. Neither made the final ten in the golden tickets.
P.S. Bud, I am in no way trying to flame YOU on this. This poll just really gets under my skin =)
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Post by Bud Parsley on Aug 30, 2006 17:18:30 GMT -8
I suppose I can see some of your points, Skylark. I actually know nothing about this poll and just happened upon it when I went to Cedar Point's website and they were touting all their rankings. However, I do believe that outside of the "Disney Magic" it's probably pretty hard to top Cedar Point. I mean from a pure volume and quality standpoint. I realize there are smaller parks that probably have much more charm and even better (albeit smaller) ride selection. But for the size of the park, Cedar point is amazing. I mean, to me it was like taking Magic Mountain, removing the painful coasters so that EVERYTHING (less Mantis) had a HUGE repeatability factor, removing the ghetto gang-banger crowds, adding ride operators that were friendly and really cared, removing the theme park food and adding real places to eat, cleaning the place up to near Disney standards, and adding some nice theming and ride placement/interaction. Plus they have some pretty cool flat rides that are hard to find anywhere else. I really had lost all hope that a park that big could NOT become an inevitable problem, but somehow Cedar Point does it. And the neatest thing about that park is it seems to be run by complete coaster geeks as well, who love to keep their website updated with reviews and photos of every ride, as well as collect pointless statistics about every ride, and get excited when something gets a simple paint job. My kind of crowd! My point is that I was very impressed with Cedar Point and was glad to see they did well in the poll...that was well deserved in my opinion. But I have no doubt that you may be right that the poll isn't truly representative. I mean heck, they didn't ask me! In today's internet world it's hard to really know what you're looking at, who's participating, and how the results are skewed when it comes to online polls. Personally I get ticked off by Screamscape's "scream sheets". I mean, when the majority of the population lives in the Eastern US and hardly ever gets to the West (just as you and I have the opposite problem) how is it possible NOT to have an "East Coast Bias" when it comes to theme parks and polls that rank your favorite rides? The only West Coast places that stand a chance are in California because there are a few folks there. But even so, among the East Coast parks, those near population centers are going to get more votes because there are more people (statistically) that will visit them and participate in some online poll. For these very reasons a park like Silverwood stands no chance receiving the respect it probably deserves, unless the poll uses a "head to head" format, or something similar which provides for a truer comparison among those who have actually ridden different rides. I'm not a statistician by any means, but it's clear to see how something like that creates a "fairer" set of results. I'm sincerely curious to know a bit more what "agenda" you think is being pushed. Is it a direct tie to certain parks...do you think they get a kickback or something like that? Just curious to get your thoughts on what might be driving those type of results for the Golden Tickets, especially since I really know nothing about Amusement Today or these awards.
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Post by 65skylark on Aug 30, 2006 19:27:26 GMT -8
^ First of all I just want to make clear that I am not against Cedar Point ranking high or even #1. Like I said I really want to get to that park myself, but, just like me if I were to go to Cedar Point right now, you only had mostly West Coast parks to compare it to. I truly do know quite a few people who have been to most of the parks the Midwest and East Coast have to offer and none of them would hold Cedar Point at number one. I guess I am just going mainly off of that sense I haven't been anywhere other than WDW and Busch Gardens East of the Rockies. Amusement Today is the leading magazine in the theme park industry. It is huge advertising when a theme park can say Amusement Today ranked them #1 in a certain category. It's no different than movies. A movie advertising "Two Thumbs Way Up by Ebert and Roeper" is going to get more interest than a movie advertising "Fantastic, raves the Oregonian". Amusement Today polls mostly ACErs. I don't know what the criteria is for choosing who they choose (If I can remember I will ask one of the guys I know who votes). One thing about Cedar Point is that there a lot of die hard Point Freaks out there. Just like there are some (although I'm not sure why) die hard Six Flags fans. These people will vote for there coaster or park just to see it rank high. That is what I mean by agenda and this poll being a popularity contest. I can't - even if I wanted to - believe Magnum XL is on any-one's top 10 list if they have been on more than 100 coasters. But, Magnum is a very significant in roller coaster history, and It's at CP, so people can't let it go. (hence the popularity contest part) I've no doubt CP is the most popular "amusement" park - not "theme" park - in the world. My main gripe isn't even with CP coming in number one. It is with the coaster rankings and some other categories. They simply do not poll a well enough rounded group of people to get an even close to accurate account of what the best coasters in the world are. I mean, if you've never been on Balder, you probably aren't going to vote for it One other thing to keep in mind. Most of the adds in Amusement Today are from theme parks. The large ones like Cedar Point and Disney obviously spend the most money on adds so if your Amusement Today it doesn't hurt you one bit to try and find people that might "sway" the vote in favor of your biggest advertisers. It happens in other industries as well. Just out of curiosity, Bud, I seem to remember reading in another thread that you've been on 100 or so coasters? Where would you rank Magnum XL? Number 3? Would it even be #3 if you excluded all of the other coasters at CP from the list? Just curious is all. Hopefully by the end of next year I'll know first hand where I would rank it.
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Post by Bud Parsley on Aug 30, 2006 21:48:43 GMT -8
I've been on 90 coasters to date, and I actually do rank my top 20 and try to keep this updated each time I ride (and re-ride) coasters.
Currently I have Magnum in my number 8 spot overall, but understand, I'm a hypercoaster addict. I prefer the non-looping steel coasters over almost any others. So it's probably higher than most people would rank it just by nature of it being my favorite type of coaster.
But I do understand the point you're making. If these awards are completely generated by only a select few, then they are probably pretty skewed. It's like the Oscars, or the Grammys. How many times do you find yourself saying "what idiot decided THAT should win?!?!" The select few in control run the show, and you can tell when their agenda shines through.
However, all this talk got me thinking about how difficult it really is to "fairly" rank something that is so geographically dispersed like Roller Coasters. So few people (can any?) claim to have "ridden everything". And even if they have, the time it takes to do so plays such a factor. Other questions make the issue of ranking coasters even more difficult: If I haven't ridden my #1 coaster in a few years, would I still consider it #1 or has age taken it's toll on the coaster? Better yet, can I really make a fair comparison of two coasters that I rode several years apart, and perhaps under different weather, crowd, and health conditions? And how much of a factor does nostalgia play: is your first ride always going to make your list, even if it isn't that great of a ride? (IMO see Coney Island Cyclone)
Anyway, you get my point. This is becoming a very interesting thread.
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Post by 65skylark on Aug 30, 2006 22:31:16 GMT -8
^ I can totally see Magnum being number eight out of ninety coasters especially if you like hypers. That just furthers my belief of it not truely being in any of the voters top three. Of the two people I know that vote, one has a coaster count of almost 400 and the other is over 600. What you said about the Coney Island Cyclone I believe is a factor here. A lot of these voters - a large number of them middle aged ACErs - remember riding Magnum for the first time and I'm sure it absolutely blew them away! It was no doubt the number one coaster on the planet 15 yrs ago, but not now.
You're also right, there is no "fair" way to rank what coaster is truely best but Mitch Hawkers system gives you the best "general" idea. Even his system has it's flaws. Using head to head compairisons is great but when you get a coaster like Tremors most of the people who ride it don't have much to compare it to. Is Tremors a great woodie? Absolutely. Is it the fourth best woodie in the world? I have my doubts. Also what is great to one may not be great to another. You love hypers. I love woodies. Nostalgia will always have a factor for me also. I will always hold Space Mountain at Disneyland very high simply because I was five years old the first time I rode it and it blew me away.
I'm like you though. I re-rate coasters all the time. Ghost Rider was my number one coaster for a long time but this year it dropped a little for me. And I think also that weather, crowd, and health conditions play a factor. Just the overall mood you are in that day plays a factor in how much you enjoy a ride.
It is an interesting topic though. I really wouldn't have a problem with any ONE person saying there favorite coaster was Grizzly at PGA even though it has come in dead last in Mitch Hawkers poll for the last several years, because coasters and rides are so subjective.
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Post by 65skylark on Sept 6, 2007 20:44:10 GMT -8
Well the 07 results are out and they are just as much a joke as ever. At least I am not the only one that seems to think so. This form Screamscape. I will give Amusement Today some credit for opening up the voting a little more. I just hope they don't loose too much money on advertising from Cedar Point after they aren't voted the #1 park in the world and Magnum XL200 drops out of the top 20 as it should. MagnumXL200 is ranked 5th out of every steel coaster in the world this year. Guess where El Toro ranked in the wood category? 9th!!!!!!!!!! Amazing. Oh and I guess Six Flags Fiesta Texas has better shows than Disney
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